Curse

Kai Nui · Aug 16, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Now I don't know about you guys, but every time I come here to this part of the forums a small piece inside of me dies. Now I've always thought of the mesmer as being one of the best classes out there that took thought, strategy, and experience to get a good handle on how to use it. To be a mesmer meant you also knew not only yourself, but you knew your opponents in order to properly counter them. Now I'm going a bit off topic by saying this, but I'm constantly seeing people in here who have no mesmer experience and people making only PVE builds or builds that are just not so... thought-provoking or original.

So, I've decided to start up a thread for brainstorming, all you do is just add in personal tid-bits of information that you came up with yourself that turned out to be a good combo. Please don't post builds in here such as E-surge, Eburn, mindwrack, etc... because anyone could put that together. No equinox/arcane langour either.

I'd rather not post any of my ideas simply because it'd just look like was bragging or something, but I will comment on other ideas and possibly share some of my ideas with the community later on to add to the mix, because everyone seems to approach the mesmer differently. I think it'd be great if we all got to see everyone's perspectives to make our understandings overall into good one.

TeeGee · Aug 16, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Well maybe you are little exagerating the whole thing but I get what you mean. Whole bunch of "advice for new mesmer" threads are making me sick and are simply boring to read/respond. Actually the last thread I had fun with was the one about rating mesmer elites. On the other hand... there is not much else creative and innovative about mesmers to say. This game has limited number of useful skills after all. Actually bit of originality can be found in GvG/TA but then again - ppl are being secretive to gain some advantage.

As for me... why not to share my idea of build I'm playing in TA/GvG... I'm constantly thinking of improving it.

Att pts:
14 dom
9 FC
10 insp
5 air

No superior runes means 560 health, and it doesn't make any difference in effectivity. I try to keep all my mesmer builds at high health due to being primary target 90% of the time, and I take advantage of fact that most dom skills cap at 14.

The skillset:

*diversion* - probably best mesmer skill now, I try to fit in every build i make. Universal shutdown

*shame* - great skill, yet not used widely. Shuts, drains, and works like semi energy managment. Bane of monks.

*gale* - Diverted? Shame recharging? GALE! and stay down! Good for spike assist, good when warrior chases target, good when being attacked, good for interrupt on spirit spammer, good when waiting for recharge of other skills. Hard to use due to exhaustion... more fun.

*energy burn* - even more spike and stress on poor monk. With shame can deny lot of energy.

*shatter enchant* - how I like to kill people with their own prot spirit...

*drain enchant* - offensive energy managment. With shatter it's a lot of enchant hate. Make boonprot shiver and attunements on ele are just wasted energy. Oh and draining AoD assasin is plain funn... puff! and they are gone...

*expel hexes* - best mesmer elite probably. Just make those hex spammer useless. Combined with other skills in this build it makes one of most versatile mesmers ever. Energy denial, shutdown, spike assist, enchant hate, hex hate... true power of mesmer. Like swiss knife of your team.

*res signet* - no comments.

And here comes variations... Add Glyph of Renewal instead of Expel Hexes. That makes build unable to counter hexes but makes it more effective and versatile in all other aspects. Want to be e-denial? Renew energy burn and cast shame! Want to shut monk? Glyphed shame... and when monk has it removed/expired/cast-through-it he gets another shame... and then diversion... and gale. Frustrating isn't it? You have boonprot to spike? Glyphed shatter ench for 200 dmg seems nice, huh? Glyphed drain for double energy managmnet.

This makes player constantly planning and thinking of what aspect of his mesmer to boost in given situation, as he can do many things and he is very good at them. Playing this build is like playing many mesmer builds at once, and still being effective... and it's fun to do so...

I hope this is thought-provoking enough for you Kai Nui :P

Terra Xin · Aug 17, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

I played a full Inspiration e-denial build with Mantra of Recovery. Unlimited energy for myself while my target had no energy at all. Being able to do damage is one aspect of play, but e-denial is damage prevention, which works similar to blackout if you can do it effectively.

I played around with a build like this in RA, it was really nice^^. I would have considered myself a monk if I could somehow manage to keep myself alive (I couldn't heal with ether feast because I drained all the energy from all my targets... lol)

And with this idea, power return becomes really helpful as well.

Hella Good · Aug 17, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

I was thinking of trying a Me/A Sig of Midnight build that uses Sig of Shadows, Sin warping adn survival skills, and some sort of combo Me/A hexes and Sigs (under MoI) to do damage. Haven't rly finalized anything yet, but Sig of Malace is also an option to consider.

Sab · Aug 17, 2006, 04:19 AM // 04:19

A part of me dies everytime I see a Mesmer build (PvE or PvP), which lacks any skills from the Inspiration line. Mesmers have some of the best energy management skills in the game - why not use them?

Power Drain, Drain Enchantment, Inspired/Revealed Hex are excellent non-elite e-management which also serves as utility (i.e. PDrain interrupts, Drain Ench is ench removal, Insp/Rev Hex is hex removal). I suggest fitting at least one of the above into any Mesmer build you come up with. There are spells to be interrupted, enchantments to be drained and hexes to be removed - regaining energy while doing those always helps in powering the rest of your skillbar.

Hella Good · Aug 17, 2006, 06:14 AM // 06:14

I use Inspiration a lot. Mostly Spirit Shacks and Spirit of Failure and stuff like Drain Chant/Inspahex tho. Often times MoI (I like my Sigs). I rarely use E-drain. Not rly sure why. Sig of Humility is pretty good in a Diversion kinda build. But apart from these few skills, Inspiration has a whole lot of useless stuff in it (or shall we say "situational")- all the Mantras vs Elements, Physical and Elemental Res, plain weird skills like Auspicious Incantation and Ether Signet, elites like Keystone, Lyssa's, and Power Leech. The attribute is just clearly a supportive one, it doesn't rly give a lot to center an Inspiration build around. But yea, it should be part of most any Me build, it's wonderful synergy with the other attributes.

hazmat · Aug 17, 2006, 09:15 AM // 09:15

On the topic of inspiration, heres a 4x4 build I made awhile back and works quite good in the right setup. Dependent on the rest of the team, but hey.

me/mo
inspiration 16
fc 13
succor -> all three members in your party
the other 6 skills -> mixture between edenial/energy gain, nuisence, etc. Inspiration line has a lot to offer.

Kai Nui · Aug 17, 2006, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Well I guess I should submit my two bits, mainly I was thinking that you don't always have to use your skills 100%, just because you use a skill, the attribute doesn't have to have points in it, as long as the effect is there. Like Hex Breaker for example. Several skills I don't see used are Arcane Thievery/Larceny, Revealed/Inspired Hex/Enchantment. Although I do see inspired hex go around often, it's just that people don't like to use them because they think that they're forced into having to use the skill they take. That's not really true, you can simply use it for energy drain. One good combo is Arcane Thievery, Arcane Larceny, and diversion. After you've taken away 2 of their skills for around 30 seconds, divert them into losing more of their skills. Often times you can steal their Reversal of Fortune or elite skill, and in the case of warriors you can take their only healing skills since it only steals spells. When on the priest maps in TA or HA you can just shut down the monk by stealing it's heal area simple as that.

Besides that, if you're running Inspired Hex and you have leftover points, just spread them out among stats that contain hexes and use a necromancer secondary if you're not using your other secondary. If you're running Arcane Thievery or inspired enchantment get a monk secondary and put in heal and prot so that you can potentially use the skills, even if they are still very ineffective. Also remember that enchantments you maintain that you might have taken will stay on you even if you no longer have the skill in your bar, such as Essence bond or Succor can be used to your advantage, or you can be funny and put Divine Boon on yourself and whenever you steal RoF or other monk skills spam them as a secondary healer if you're really that bored and crazy. Anyways that's just what I have to say. I often see Me/Mo running inspired hex, and although extremely minor, if you're not running any monk skills, swap to necro and make your Life Siphon +2 instead of +1 or whatever. Or maybe I'm just stupid.

And Terra Xin you really got me thinking... the entire team was energy denied so much that you actually gave them energy to steal lol. That's what I'm looking for. TeeGee, thanks for your good contribution, as anti-warrior is pretty much the only RA build a mesmer can run unless they want to be dead, but combining areas from both to do an anti caster is great.

Avarre · Aug 17, 2006, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

Now I don't know about you guys, but every time I come here to this part of the forums a small piece inside of me dies.

I agree.

Quote:

Now I'm going a bit off topic by saying this, but I'm constantly seeing people in here who have no mesmer experience and people making only PVE builds or builds that are just not so... thought-provoking or original.

Well... I'm kinda drained on original builds here... in GvG I play a fairly standard dom mesmer (Expel/surge, burn, drainench, shatter, diversion, blackout, distortion, res chant)

Quote:

If you're running Arcane Thievery or inspired enchantment get a monk secondary and put in heal and prot so that you can potentially use the skills, even if they are still very ineffective.

In TA/GvG, target of oppurtunity with inspired is Mantra of Recall, for obvious reasons

I'd say put the points in prot, other targets would be prot spirit (during an adrenspike).

Quote:

One good combo is Arcane Thievery, Arcane Larceny, and diversion. After you've taken away 2 of their skills for around 30 seconds

These skills seem to steal the same skill far too often to make it effective to bring both.

TeeGee : I run the same build in TA often with the exception of Blackout instead of Gale. Blackout is too useful a skill in adrenaline removal and monk knockout when pressure/spikes are going to bring someone down.

Northrog · Aug 17, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Here is my RA build :

- rez signet : to rez !!
- complicate : interrupt whatever you want, especially rez signet, heal signet, blessed signet, troll unguent
- ineptitude : they say "put it on warriors" ! Yes taking half of the life of a frenzy warrior is fun but punishing a stupid wanding monk is fun too... I mean it works on almost every (noob ?) class.
- IoR : a bit of degen/a bit of damage/ everything at low cost and low time recharge.
- distorsion : save your life.
- drain enchantment : always useful to teach that wammo a lesson.
- diversion : one of the best skill of the game.
- healing breeze : hmmm sometime I wonder why I took it... Sometime I prefer ether feast and ditch healing prayers. Sometime healing breeze can save a teammate...

fast cast : 8+1
illusion : 10+2+1
domination : 7+2
inspiration : 6+1
healing prayers : 9

This is a "do all - do nothing" build. I mean it's very versatile so i do lose the power of a specialized build. Energy management is hard, so you can't just spam skills. You have to read carefully the enemy team's build and act accordingly-sparingly. This is why I love this build.
Since your main damage source is "ineptitude", may be it's better to take a wand and a focus to get 40% recharge time in illusion spells. But I use a 20% wand and the time eater.

I made my first gladiator rank with this build.

Kai Nui · Aug 17, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I'd agree with you Avarre, but you don't have to use them both on the same person, and often times you only steal the same spell because they don't have that many other spells. Sadly you do get the same skill more than once, but I'm ok with that happening occasionally, but when you do get two different spells it's worth it to me at least.

hazmat · Aug 17, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

annoyance technique: pinch one of their spells, use it & make sure they can see you using it.

</random thought>

Kai Nui · Aug 17, 2006, 12:14 PM // 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazmat

annoyance technique: pinch one of their spells, use it & make sure they can see you using it.

</random thought>

You mean like taking exploit corpse from a necro and then use it bashfully on their dead body to make a pathetically leveled minion? Other than that, I'd suggest using the thief skills to steal other mesmer skills mainly, as you'll be able to use them much more effectively on your target. If you steal a skill already in your bar such as diversion, keep spamming away, it's fun to get double.

Francis Demeules · Aug 17, 2006, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Instead playing Interrupt, Degen or Edenial builds in GvG, I still prefer using high Inspiration and be Hex,Condition and Enchantment remover. Perhaps I do low damage, but at least I keep my team with no hexes and conditions and the Ele and monk with no enchantments

Hella Good · Aug 17, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

I think we discussed the dual Thevery thing couple of months ago. The way these skills seem to work they seem to ignore the fact that a skill has already been stolen from a target and tend to steal the same skill that same skill, and they also tend to steal the same skill for the entire duration of the match. It is very fun to do but it is a hit and miss. Pisses the hell out of people tho.

My main problem with Inspiration is that I firmly believe that having excess of nrg is just as bad as having no nrg. That's actually why I'm also sceptical to Sig builds. If you are gonna drain/preserve all that nrg, then use it for something! Maintain some chants, use 25 nrg skills, anything rly.

Themis · Aug 18, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Hi, Kai Nui

Hope your blues' will end up soon

Talking about energy management in Illusion builds, i'm very fond of AuspiciousIncantation+ImaginedBurden. It resplenishes my energy bar instantly (illusion has plenty of energy-consuming skills) and it works great in AB.
Combining AI with Ethereal/Kitah's burden is nice too, gives still more energy over time, but i noticed that the additionnal recharge put on Ethereal is a hard inconvience.

TeeGee · Aug 18, 2006, 10:41 AM // 10:41

@ Avarre:

Quote:

I run the same build in TA often with the exception of Blackout instead of Gale. Blackout is too useful a skill in adrenaline removal and monk knockout when pressure/spikes are going to bring someone down.

Yes, I know that blackout is awesome but I swapped it for gale for 5 reasons:

1. With gale I can knockdown monk when my team is going to spike AND spike with them with shatter/burn.

2. I can stop running targets from escaping warriors rage.

3. Gale has range - which is very important in gvg - mesmer trying to touch enemy backline with b-out is just too nice target to kill. Also this makes gale nice interrupt compared to b-out.

4. Gale basically gives me 3 seconds of advantage over my target (to burn him, cast diversion or shame and such things) while b-out after nerf gives me only 1.

5. Most important - I just got bored with b-out and awnted to have fun with something elese :P. Though I miss defensive capacity of b-out vs warriors...

@ Kao Nui

Quote:

Several skills I don't see used are Arcane Thievery/Larceny, Revealed/Inspired Hex/Enchantment.

Well people just don't use thieveries cause they are too random and basicaly sacrifices one of your skills in bard for one of the enemy's while diversion also takes one space but can be used to disable whole enemy's skillbar.

As for Inspired Hex - it's used widely but amongst monks. It's one of the must-have skills in boonprot monk after all.

As for Inspired Ench - lately I see it used by some GvG mesmers because removing Mantra of Recall from enemy boonprot with this skill is very good idea.

Scourgey · Aug 18, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

I used to run:

16 dom, 9 FC, 11 Inspiration.

Shatter enchantment, cry of frustration/blackout, Shatter hex, Power Drain, Power Spike, Inspired Hex/Drain Enchantment, Gylph of renewal/Mantra of Recovery, Ressurrection Signet.

This was before the masses of warriors with IWAY became hugely common and everyone realised warriors did huge damage, now, this build isn't feasible

. The double shatter hex was the best part of the build or double shatter enchant for a huge damage spike for a boon protect who just put guardian on themselves.

I still love shatter hex, and it is a very good anti-hex counter which I don't see used often.

added: I should also say this build was for TA.

Terra Xin · Aug 18, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

you know if you run Auspicious + Persistance + Illusion Spell, it could make up for the 30 second disability that you face.

Bale_Shadowscar · Aug 18, 2006, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Well, I don't have a full build, but I can share a few ideas with some skills:

Shatter Hex - With High Domination, this skill is awesome: Getting rid of a hex, and dealing about 120 damage to all enemies nearby the target. 15 energy is pretty steep, but if you have good energy management its not too bad. I remember using it on a monk who had a hex, and it dealt 240 damage to a warrior attacking the monk using frenzy, which aint too shabby. It has a 10 second recharge and a relatively quick cast time (1 sec). "Nearby" range is also quite good, especially if your target is surrounded.

Signet of Humility Not tried this myself, but according to wiki, if used with Mantra of Inscriptions, then you can permenantley disable an opponents elite. The problem is you'll have to cast a 2 sec signet every 10 seconds, which would allow you to do little else.

Mantra of Flame + Greater Conflagration + Winter- Now this is an interesting combo I've seen somewhere (didn't make it myself). Basically, With these two spirits up, all damage becomes fire damage. If you have high Inspiration, and use Mantra of Flame, this means that you'll take half damage from (nearly) all sources, but you'll recieve 2 energy whenever you take that damage. Could be an interesting idea for a HA group.

Power Return - Again I haven't tried this, but a 5e Interupt with a 7 sec recharge should be able to interupt anything that an opponent tries to cast (especially with the help of Migrane etc). Sure, your giving them energy back, but what use is that if they can't cast a spell with it from being interupted.

Just a few ideas.